Just to clear my thoughts about what's supposed to have happened with Jughead - in both timelines:
1)
ORIG timeline: 1977 Jughead does not go off, timeflash brings Losties back to 2007, rest of Dharma supposedly built Swan with button protocol over Jughead. So did Desmond actually set off Jughead in 2004 by turning the failsafe key? If he did - did he trigger a reset of some sort, too? Turn this key and this all goes away. (Kelvin's words to Desmond in Live Together, Die Alone).
2)
ALT timeline: 1977 Jughead does explode and triggers a reset, creating the ALT timeline, where some 30 years later 815 passes over the island without crashing. Are we to assume that in ALT 1977, the same sort of implosion happens at the Swan construction site that happened in ORIG 2004? Obviously, even though Jughead did go off, there's been no nuclear explosion - Dharma houses are intact in ALT 2004. If some sort of Desmond like implosion happened in ALT 1977, Juliet should be there to avoid a paradox. She caused the implosion. She still has to be there in ALT 1977. I hate the idea, because it would have to involve time travel - again. I was so hopeful we could avoid any sort of timetravel in the alt timeline .
Since the Desmond implosion did reveal the Island to the outside world in ORIG 2004, we could assume that the same thing happens in ALT 1977. Maybe that's what leads to submerged Island - to hide its location after the exposure. Might be similar to what the Oceanic Six witnessed from the copter - Island vanishes. Someone turns the Wheel.
Since the Desmond implosion did reveal the Island to the outside world in ORIG 2004, we could assume that the same thing happens in ALT 1977. Maybe that's what leads to submerged Island - to hide its location after the exposure. Might be similar to what the Oceanic Six witnessed from the copter - Island vanishes. Someone turns the Wheel.
We know it is not necessery to submerge the island to hide it!
1) Turn this key and this all goes away. (Kelvin's words to Desmond in Live Together, Die Alone).
I could be wrong, but I don't think this comment or the Swan button had anything to do with Jughead. When the Swan was still a mystery, we were supposed to suspect that entering the numbers was saving the world. However, when the failsafe key was turned and the Swan imploded, the world did not come to an end.
I think Chang's explanation on the Swan video was factual....A drilling accident caused the Swan to be built to contain and release e.m energy.
So other than the implosion, Des's CTT, and the Island becoming visible to Naomi's helicopter, nothing catastrophic seemed to happened.
It could be that turning the failsafe key saved everything. I don't know what would have happened had the numbers not been entered AND the key not turned. Maybe this would have lead to the catastrophe Kelvin and Chang feared.
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Originally Posted by Calliope
.... Maybe that's what leads to submerged Island - to hide its location after the exposure. Might be similar to what the Oceanic Six witnessed from the copter - Island vanishes.
I think you're in the ballpark. When I watched the Island "move," it looked to me as though it was being pulled downward. It obviously didn't wind up at the bottom of the ocean in the ORIG. timelime, but maybe whatever allowed it "move" downward safely to another location is what was defunct in the ALT timeline. So instead of being pulled through to another location, the Island just gets pulled down...and stays right there.
We know it is not necessery to submerge the island to hide it!
The submerged Island was a very cool shot in the opening scenes, granted, but why oh why did they saddle us with such a big new mystery when we still have so many to solve? Because we love it, of course .
Well, I'm not so sure, if one of the possibilities of hiding the Island isn't submerging it. That it is necessary at times to hide it, despite it usually being so hard to find it, has been proven by the freighter, hasn't it?
Any other ideas, why it might be submerged in ALT 2004, Fierro? Or anyone? I'd love to hear your theories.
As for the Swan site and what happened exactly when Desmond turned the failsafe key, I think we have to assume that Jughead was still there. Because in that timeline, it didn't explode, so the core is trapped in that hole in ORIG 1977, intact (and ready to explode, hehe). Or maybe Dharma found ways to recover and disarm it from the construction site?
The submerged Island was a very cool shot in the opening scenes, granted, but why oh why did they saddle us with such a big new mystery when we still have so many to solve? Because we love it, of course .
Well, I'm not so sure, if one of the possibilities of hiding the Island isn't submerging it. That it is necessary at times to hide it, despite it usually being so hard to find it, has been proven by the freighter, hasn't it?
Any other ideas, why it might be submerged in ALT 2004, Fierro? Or anyone? I'd love to hear your theories.
As for the Swan site and what happened exactly when Desmond turned the failsafe key, I think we have to assume that Jughead was still there. Because in that timeline, it didn't explode, so the core is trapped in that hole in ORIG 1977, intact (and ready to explode, hehe). Or maybe Dharma found ways to recover and disarm it from the construction site?
I don't think submerging the island is an option to hide it. That would kill every single living thing on it. I wonde what would happen to the SMoke MOnster and Jacob!
As far as whuy it is submerged... I think they did that to show us that that timeline is doomed. That is the SAD timeline.
The island is and will always be the central character of the show. BY showing it like that, they are basically telling us that it is dead. That is NOT good.
I personally don't think it was a consequence of jughead, but somehint g that happened later on.
The whole idea behind Lost might be 'SAVE THE ISLAND, SAVE THE WORLD.'
Without the Losties on the island in this alt timeline, the island was doomed. They couldn't prevent whatever it is that destroyed it (probably the smoke monster) from happening and that is why it is submerged. Submerged Ruins is a sign of destroyed civilzations.
But I also think that the destruction of the island is gonna have an impact on the world as a whole sooner or later. And we might get to see it as part of the alt timeline story arch.
Of course, in the original timeline, they are still there and their mission will be to SAVE THE ISLAND from being destroyed at the hands of Smokie/Locke.
Let's not forget that now we know the Island is most likely NOT Smokie's home.
Once he is off the island, he won't mind what happens to it. He might even want to destroy it as it seems to have served as some sort of prison for him for who knows how long!
Submerging doesn't necessarily have to kill everyone on Island. If it's some sort of last resort procedure to hide, they might also have ways to cope with the effects of submerging (think of the Dharma shark, the submarines, the Looking Glass).
If Ben did something similar in ORIG 2004 by turning the wheel, it's conceivable someone could do the same in ALT 1977 or later.
Since Charles Widmore probably is leader of the Others in ALT 1977, I wonder who would be interested to come to the Island and who would be enough of a threat to make them want to take such a drastic step. Whoever it is who's not on Widmore's side.
Last edited by Calliope; 02-06-2010 at 04:00 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I don't think submerging the island is an option to hide it. That would kill every single living thing on it. .......
As far as whuy it is submerged... I think they did that to show us that that timeline is doomed. That is the SAD timeline. ......
BY showing it like that, they are basically telling us that it is dead. That is NOT good.
But I also think that the destruction of the island is gonna have an impact on the world as a whole sooner or later. And we might get to see it as part of the alt timeline story arch.
Agreed that this was not a purposeful attempt to hide the Island, that it was shown as means of proving that the Island is now gone, that it is not a good thing, and that we will see that shown while following the alt. timeline.
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