So it just struck me that the reason it doesn't say Jack Shepherd or James Ford in the cave, but rather just the last name COULD be because of this whole tapestry idea.
"It takes a very long time when you're making the thread yourself, but I suppose that's the point."
I don't think it's just THESE characters that our deceptive duo of Flocke and Jacob are seeking. I think its the families. It just struck me that while there is always a huge focus on family in this show, there's not a lot of siblings. I stated in another thread that I think Jacob has been not only manipulating our losties, but their entire family line to get them to this point. I think that Jacob has been identifying key families, meddling in their history in order produce the results that he wanted, this current generation of losties that have all come to this island. What's the possibility that the crossing off of names represents not the end of just the characters we know, but the entire family line?
The only argument I can see against this would be Aaron, but if removing him from Claire's 'influence' takes him out of the equation, this would fit. This would also go a little bit towards explaining why there is such an interconnectedness of these characters, that's just the way Jacob has made it.
Further supporting this is the Littleton/Jarrah problem. If Claire and Sayid have both come to the same end, that is they have both been claimed, then why is Littleton crossed out but Jarrah is still there? Could it be because Sayid is one of the only people who has a brother?
It would also explain why, if these numbers were assigned chronologically, our losties could be such low numbers when we see some of the other names (Jones, etc) having higher numbers but are already crossed out.
Yes. I think there has to be some sort of big reason that it is just their last names. I originally thought it was because they wanted to bait us into thinking it is one character, when in fact it is their offspring or sibling.
I really like the idea that it is connected to family bloodlines rather than single people. So Jack's can be about Christian potentially or Sayid's brother or something like that. I remember seeing theories about Liam giving the ring to Charlie as turning him into a substitute for Liam in going to the island and fulfilling some kind of role.
So similarly, maybe you can pass on your destiny on the island to an offspring or family member that shares your blood (and last name), so could Eloise have deliberately sent Daniel to die so she wouldn't have to. It all fits in with the idea of the substitute.
I don't think it's so much that they are passing their destiny on like it was a gene. I think its more that Jacob has manipulated these families' histories in order to produce a singular result at a given time, and has done so to orchestrate it so that the descendants of the families were in one transport so he could at that point bring them to the island to achieve his goals. We know Jacob is the one responsible for bringing people (How did they find the Island? You'll have to ask them. I don't HAVE to ask.), and we know that he is going towards a singular goal (it only ends once, everything else is just progress). It's more as if he's been changing environmental variables to the point to achieve this final result, the one that we are now watching play out.
The crossed out family names are names that have, for one reason or another, fallen outside of his plan. But he still has several candidates left for whatever the culmination of his plan is.
So it just struck me that the reason it doesn't say Jack Shepherd or James Ford in the cave, but rather just the last name COULD be because of this whole tapestry idea.
"It takes a very long time when you're making the thread yourself, but I suppose that's the point."
I don't think it's just THESE characters that our deceptive duo of Flocke and Jacob are seeking. I think its the families. It just struck me that while there is always a huge focus on family in this show, there's not a lot of siblings. I stated in another thread that I think Jacob has been not only manipulating our losties, but their entire family line to get them to this point. I think that Jacob has been identifying key families, meddling in their history in order produce the results that he wanted, this current generation of losties that have all come to this island. What's the possibility that the crossing off of names represents not the end of just the characters we know, but the entire family line?
The only argument I can see against this would be Aaron, but if removing him from Claire's 'influence' takes him out of the equation, this would fit. This would also go a little bit towards explaining why there is such an interconnectedness of these characters, that's just the way Jacob has made it.
Further supporting this is the Littleton/Jarrah problem. If Claire and Sayid have both come to the same end, that is they have both been claimed, then why is Littleton crossed out but Jarrah is still there? Could it be because Sayid is one of the only people who has a brother?
It would also explain why, if these numbers were assigned chronologically, our losties could be such low numbers when we see some of the other names (Jones, etc) having higher numbers but are already crossed out.
I think 'Jarrah' isn't crossed out because Jacob 'died' before Sayid 'died', so Jacob just hasn't been to the cave to cross out his name.
I think 'Jarrah' isn't crossed out because Jacob 'died' before Sayid 'died', so Jacob just hasn't been to the cave to cross out his name.
I'm not sure that I believe it was actually Jacob's cave... I'm wondering if it's actually the MIB's cave and he was lying to Sawyer. To me, it was the differences in the way the information was recorded that make me think otherwise. For example:
In the statue, we see Jacob weaving a tapestry - something very intricate, complicated, detailed. Makes me think that Jacob is thinking things through in their entirety, not acting compulsively or without thinking. He's a very thorough, detail-oriented person.
On the other hand, in the cave, all of these notes, numbers and names are simply scrawled crudely on the walls and ceiling of the cave. No sense of order, sloppy, looks like a rush job that someone did really fast as things came to mind or was acting impulsively on.
Just makes me think that the cave belongs to the MIB
I'm not sure that I believe it was actually Jacob's cave... I'm wondering if it's actually the MIB's cave and he was lying to Sawyer. To me, it was the differences in the way the information was recorded that make me think otherwise. For example:
In the statue, we see Jacob weaving a tapestry - something very intricate, complicated, detailed. Makes me think that Jacob is thinking things through in their entirety, not acting compulsively or without thinking. He's a very thorough, detail-oriented person.
On the other hand, in the cave, all of these notes, numbers and names are simply scrawled crudely on the walls and ceiling of the cave. No sense of order, sloppy, looks like a rush job that someone did really fast as things came to mind or was acting impulsively on.
Just makes me think that the cave belongs to the MIB
Either way, he is right about the fact that no one has been back to the cave since the events of the premier, so no one has been able to cross off Jarrah. And MiB isn't the type who would tip his hand by crossing off Locke and then grabbing a ladder to cross off Jarrah. I do still feel that because of the way the numbers are setup (so low for most of our losties when this plan has been in motion for a long time), that this is about Jacob manipulating entire family histories to produce his desired results.
I thought it could be something more like there are only a finite number of candidates and for whatever reason he chose to number them in descending order, we have seen countdowns repeatedly on the show. Maybe there are only 864 (108x8) candidates and our group is the last batch.
Hmm..the countdown is a VERY interesting idea. It would also go along with the obvious thread that we are seeing the finale of these events that are set in motion. Nice idea.
Enigma -- that's a very good point that the "style" doesn't seem like something Jacob would do. Jacob spent a long time creating that tapestry. We also know that Jacob seems partial to paper lists.
In support that the cave is indeed MiB's... it's possible that MiB could write on the walls in Smokey form, making it less ridiculous that there's writing on the ceiling that Jacob would not be able to easily reach. The entrance to the cave is also very difficulty to reach, which would be another reason it's less likely Jacob's cave. How would MiB know it's there?
and
and 