In a clue that followed this one, he said, "My love of THIS generation is my precious Tessa". At first I thought this was a nod to Tiberius being timeless in some way, but I think this may be a reference to the fact that he's "taken so much from the bloodline of the fifth republic". Is she his most recent acquisition? Tessa spelled backward is "asset".
This is probably an incredibly weak comparison (but as I'm in a whole Harry Potter kick at the moment), this reminds me of HP's Mirror of Erised (or desirE).* Showing the deepest, most desperate desires of the heart... but not necessarily needs or truths.* Some who look into the mirror waste away or go insane, dwelling in the fantasy of the mirror and letting reality slip by them.* Tessa is the mirror of asset?* A backwards passion and desire that becomes obsessive?* Reading the biographies of Semiramis and the Rossini opera .... most of her love seems to be a bit of the poisonous variety.* Not based on love as much as, obsession, Der Wille zur Macht and self-destruction.*
Quote:
I realize as well that there are Holy Grail connotations. Is she the vessel, of this generation?
She = Island?* Or perhaps "FATE"?* Luck be a lady.
This thread has become a journey. Tib has given us thought provoking poems. We all interpret or perceive them differently. Pre-conceived notions take place as we are all programmed or conditioned in the individual way that we have been raised. It is one thing to grow through your own perceptions and interpretations. It is part of the learning process. But, it is another thing to take the perceptions and interpretations of others with an open mind. We share our perceptions and thoughts, thereby changing each others minds to match the thoughts of our own. In doing this, one can look into things much deeper and on all sides. What began as one person’s thoughts now become the thoughts of all involved. Collective thinking and reasoning.
For the most part, man has taken advantage of collective thoughts and reasoning* in the physical realm. We create an idea, show it to others to get them thinking on the same page, get as many as possible to help build it. Thus mankind keeps building and building. What the mind of man can conceive, surely the mind of man can achieve.
Mankind overall has not taken the opportunity to share in the collective thoughts and reasoning of the mental or spiritual realm. (IMHO) Society tends to see this as evil or devil worship. We do not like the things of which we do not know or understand. It is evident through most faiths that one can do amazing things with individual concentration in the spiritual realm. What possibilities can there be if we were to have a multitude of people (collective thoughts and reasoning) all concentrating on the same mental or spiritual page.
Those of us that meet here on this thread are involved in collective thinking as we are all focused on Tib‘s posts and together try to unravel the meanings. We see more than one meaning when someone else expresses their point of view.
Could this be one of the many things that Tib is pointing us to. The fact that in this opera, it is imperative that the survivors must not only think collectively within the physical realm of this strange place, but also to gather together to think collectively on the mental & spiritual level. To share the faith that each has in order to build the faith as a whole. To collectively evoke the spirituality within the whole group in order to win the battle. The battle may very well be between the physical (science) and the mental/spiritual (faith). Mankind has made tremendous advances in the physical (science) realm. Well, at least by mankind’s own standards. However, by a superior being’s standards, (more than likely) we may have along way to go in order to advance in the mental/spiritual (faith) realm.
That was excellent LIVINLOST.* It made me think back to past Tib posts about two different views from one question.* That two opposing viewpoints, both correct in their way, will balance out the whole.
Here's one of those posts of Tibs:
Quote:
A Tale Times Two
It was the best of times
It was the worst of times
A Tale Times Two
Religion or Philosophy
Belief or Experience
Faith or Science
Science Fact or Science Fiction
Natural or Supernatural
Two look at the One
Yet two views are seen
The Answer
Yes
This is Your story
The Story of Man.
You write the End !
The Black Rock is in front of you
* * * * * Look Deep
* * * See Your Truth
Two views, both correct.* Tiberius posts his riddles in the same way that we are to look at the show.* Two answers from the one.
Quote:
Two from One
Remember
Each Question must have
Two Answers
It is the First Law of the Turtle.
Could this be one of the many things that Tib is pointing us to. The fact that in this opera, it is imperative that the survivors must not only think collectively within the physical realm of this strange place, but also to gather together to think collectively on the mental & spiritual level. To share the faith that each has in order to build the faith as a whole. To collectively evoke the spirituality within the whole group in order to win the battle. The battle may very well be between the physical (science) and the mental/spiritual (faith). Mankind has made tremendous advances in the physical (science) realm. Well, at least by mankind’s own standards. However, by a superior being’s standards, (more than likely) we may have along way to go in order to advance in the mental/spiritual (faith) realm.
Hope that made sense! ???
At least this is what I was thinking while reading this...
I have started thinking that to win this game that they are in and survive, they will need to come together. Jack and Locke will need to work together to overcome. Now if we look at Jack as the representation of science, and Locke as the representation of faith, this can be looked at as the joining of faith and science. Perhaps they will both be very necessary, and will need to be reconciled. Then together they (Jack/Locke faith/science) will be able to overcome and win (survive? is there more than just this?)
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Re: LOyal to the queST - Tiberius #2
Excellent cin! * That's a lot of hard work, and we thank you for doing it for all our benefit!
Putting aside probabilities from alternate histories, parallel universes and time travel, since the thread is named Tiberius #2, I hope that Tiberius' twin, and/or {*gasp*} his clone avoid posting here!
I love English Catholics (Waugh, Eliot, even Guy Fawkes), they tend to be fascinating.
Here's sort of how I'm feeling about the clues, during the summer, they are meant to pique our interest and help us notice things that perhaps we had neglected in previous viewing *that have a lot of weight. *How many of us said, "Oh Jack" when he told Kate that he wished he could have her 'faith' or when John harped the idea of choice, last night.
To this end, I think the timing of Tib's latest clue about the violin, etc, has to do with Charlie. He is intoxicated by his passion for this instrument. *That reminds me of Charlie and the heroin. Also, the reference to the Himalayab poppy. *It almost seems like this episode is foreshadowing the idea that there will be two sides. *Charlie may not have been able to overcome the withdrawals and made the choice to destroy the drugs if he hadn't been able to be useful. But he also had to be reminded of the choice that both the priest and Locke mention. *Arguably he couldn't have overcome the addiction without the help of both of them, science and faith, oops, I mean Jack and John. To sort of support what Cin and Stick posted while I was typing!
I don't know, just sort of an idea I had. *I went back and looked at last week's clues and "I have built and destroyed" and the comments about guilt and being punished reminded me of Jin. *He built a wonderful relationship with Sun and destroyed it and felt he was being punished for doing so.
Like he's telling us to look for certain traits that they all bring to this collective thought.
Ah, rambling. Sorry, I'm not sure, just something I need to look into, perhaps this weekend, I'll check other clues since the beginning of the reruns and see if it doesn't feel that way, clues that could help us look for what each character brings to this collective thinking that Livin has brought up.
I think balance is going to be key in order for them overcome. The balance between science and faith will be critical for their survival.
We were discussing Aldous Huxley's Island in the last thread. *The utopia Pala was seemingly destined to be encrouched upon and destroyed by the outside world, but it's principles were founded, basically, on a balance between faith (a buddhist) and science (a doctor). *Perhaps the principles of "Lost's" island are similar? *Except maybe the island has removed the contaminating] threat of the outside world (depending on the apocalyptic scenarios), to perhaps avoid a similar fate as Pala?
But what if it's not about him? That's what you were suggesting, right chelle?
Hey, Todell. *Yes, I don't think this is about him. *Sure it would be cool if Tib were living this life, but I don't think he'd be sharing the details of Tessa's "love sheened nakedness" with us if that were the case. *Between that and:
Quote:
I have strength and power but the feminine movements of petite Tessa sap my will.
I am drawn to her again and again.
To touch
To kiss
From head to toe and back again
Too much information! * *This HAS to be a scene he's setting to get across some aspect of "WHY". * And yes, I think it has to do with the men who have taken so much through the centuries, the greedy people whose sense of entitlement has led to the degradation of whole groups of people, countries, even continents (Africa?). *Cooper seems to fit the bill perfectly, but this could be symbolic of him and many others. * This group made a choice, and I think that's where the story begins.
There's SO much in this particular post. *The violin tucked away inside the clock means something, no doubt. *I've been working on that one but haven't come up with anything. * *It's likely metaphorical rather than something found in a particular work of fiction. *Still thinking on that.
Tiberius, if I'm wrong and this IS your life, God Bless you, man! *You DO have it goin' on. * But for one who is so secretive and mysterious, I would bet you're telling us a story that we need to look into a little deeper.
Dark leather surrounds me as I sink into the privacy of the library.
The greatest written words of Man surround me.
A collection of great works of literature, poetry? *The circle of life is a poetic theme.
Quote:
The air is filled with the aroma of Turkish tobacco as my pipe slowly burns cold.
Dark red wine stains my lips.
A dying fire crackles and cast light and shadow.
All my passions displayed before me.
Is this someone at the end of life, looking over his life and seeing that he has obtained all of his heart's desires? *He seems to be feeling a sense of satisfaction, yet a waning of life. * The pipe is burning cold, and all that remains is the essence of what came before. *He no longer drinks, his lips are stained with the essence of the wine. *This is a bittersweet moment? *
Quote:
Inside the glass and wood of the old clock is my Semiramis.
A violin of dark red colour and the voice of a fallen angel.
Is Semiramis the opera of his past? *She is put away, but he can still see her. *Semiramis is an old love that haunts him?
Quote:
Before me on the chaise lounge lies the object of my obsession.
Tessa with her long raven black tassels and skin finer that any silk.
A single blue Himalayan poppy adorns her love sheened nakedness.
Tessa is his love of this generation, which we got from the latest clue. *The caption on the photo of the blue Himalayan poppy stated that it was waiting for a bee to pollinate and complete it's cycle of life. *There is a plan or a prophecy that has yet to come to fruition?
Quote:
I have strength and power but the feminine movements of petite Tessa sap my will.
I am drawn to her again and again.
To touch
To kiss
From head to toe and back again.
This indicates to me that he does play her. *He would play with fervor, but Tessa demands a softer touch. *He must be careful that he doesn't manipulate too much too quickly. He must be subtle.
Quote:
Verily humans have their valley
But is it not the peaks that make the quest a justified journey ?
Again, it seems to be a bittersweet moment. *
Quote:
I have taken much from the bloodline of the fifth republic.
There exist so much to do yet there is so little time remaining.
He is at the end of life, and yet he wants more? *It's a delicate balance, manipulating and playing, yet not giving away too much.
Quote:
Sleep well my sweet Tessa
He allows things to rest until the approriate moment?
*beats Baileysdad with a fish biscuit forty times*
*This HAS to be a scene he's setting to get across some aspect of "WHY". * And yes, I think it has to do with the men who have taken so much through the centuries, the greedy people whose sense of entitlement has led to the degradation of whole groups of people, countries, even continents (Africa?). *Cooper seems to fit the bill perfectly, but this could be symbolic of him and many others. * This group made a choice, and I think that's where the story begins.
forty times*
and
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