So here we have it . . . SAWYER actually saving someone's life! And it appears he WAS trying to save Walt, not himself - he jumped into the water, knowing there was a shark there, bleeding, to get on his own piece of raft. Sound like a man trying to save his own butt?
So, is this a sign they're playing with the antihero and hero characters? Will Jack become more like Sawyer, and Sawyer more like Jack? What will the hero and antihero look like by the end of the series?
Actually I don't think of either of them as a hero. I know everyone sees Jack as the ultimate hero and it is funny how they're starting to make fun of it now, but: When did he actually do something really heroic? I'm not trying to bash Jack or something, I like Jack... most of the time...
Do I think Sawyer is a hero? No, not really either. He did save Michael's life, he tried to save Walt and got shot for that but I think his motives are not purely heroic. He just doesn't care about his own life very much and he kinda admitted it to Michael in last season's finale:
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Michael: Since the day you told me you wanted on this raft, I couldn't figure it out. Why does a guy who only cares about himself want to risk his life to save everyone else? The way I see it, there's only 2 choices - you're either a hero or you want to die.
Sawyer: Well, I ain't no hero, Mike.
I think that's what Sawyer's trying to achieve since the beginning of the show: to end his life and in doing so, end the pain and guilt he feels for killing the wrong guy. Just with one tiny difference: After these 44 days on the island he starts caring about the ppl around him.
he·ro n. pl. he·roes
1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
3. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine. See Synonyms at celebrity.
4. The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation.
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Originally Posted by Majandra
Actually I don't think of either of them as a hero. I know everyone sees Jack as the ultimate hero and it is funny how they're starting to make fun of it now, but: When did he actually do something really heroic? I'm not trying to bash Jack or something, I like Jack... most of the time...
Well, swimming out to save Johanna only to find Boone, and then go back out for her, well I thought that was pretty heroic. So I think he's qualify in that instance.
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Do I think Sawyer is a hero? No, not really either. He did save Michael's life, he tried to save Walt and got shot for that but I think his motives are not purely heroic. He just doesn't care about his own life very much and he kinda admitted it to Michael in last season's finale
I have to agree that that is how Sawyer started. When he was stabbed in the arm by Sayid, and was saying those mean things to Jack, I think he was trying to get Jack to let him die, that he wanted all the pain over with. He always acted like he didn't care, but did you notice that one time Boone was ostracized for hiding the water, and Sawyer asked how it felt to take his place as the most hated person on the island, he added, "Sucks, don't it?" He may act like he doesn't care, but he does.
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I think that's what Sawyer's trying to achieve since the beginning of the show: to end his life and in doing so, end the pain and guilt he feels for killing the wrong guy. Just with one tiny difference: After these 44 days on the island he starts caring about the ppl around him.
I agree, once you start caring for people, you realize it'll hurt you if something happens to them, so you start to look out for them as well. And we saw that with Sawyer trying to save Walt, rescuing Michael, and calling for Jin. He risked his own life to try and save Walt, and to get the pontoon for himself and Michael. I think he'd also qualify as a hero too.
The thing is with LOST, and the thing I love about it, it isn't always black and white. While you may be a hero in one instance, you may be the villian in another. And that could go for both Sawyer AND Jack.
The thing is with LOST, and the thing I love about it, it isn't always black and white. While you may be a hero in one instance, you may be the villian in another. And that could go for both Sawyer AND Jack.
I agree wholeheartedly here. I've pointed out many instances where Jack's behavior/actions are less than shiny. (Search moral dilemma).
I do think TPTB are playing with archetypes of hero / anti-hero. I also think there's a parallelism running throughout the show, we see dark and light in most of these characters including both Jack and Sawyer.
So here we have it . . . SAWYER actually saving someone's life! And it appears he WAS trying to save Walt, not himself - he jumped into the water, knowing there was a shark there, bleeding, to get on his own piece of raft. Sound like a man trying to save his own butt?
Lol, well, I don't think jumping into the water while bleeding was heroic, esp with a shark there, (given the well known fact that sharks are attracted to blood) but I was glad to see Sawyer doing CPR on Mikey ... while it is something we all would automatically do, it shows Sawyer's growth from someone who traded on a woman's serious medical condition for his own desire, to a man who unhesitatingly gave CPR.
I think first and foremost what Lost is trying to do is illustrate the human struggle. After all what makes a hero is someone who overcomes adversity to help others. Certainly neither Jack or Sawyer will be shiny all the time because they are human first & to be human is to be flawed.... Some of the most revered heroes in mythology committed unsavory acts such as Gilgamesh who killed in sport & even Hercules who murdered his wife and children.
I think Jack/Sawyer both share the reluctance to consider themselves in any heroic capacity, but it's just part of who they are no matter how much they resist. I don't see it as a competition of the hero/anti & that they will wind up opposite of what they are now per se, as I do that they are each embarking on their own hero's journey, & have to overcome the self-doubt & demons which hinder their growth.
2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
Getting his own piece of raft to be stubborn? No, not heroic I'd say. But swimming for a safer piece of raft for himself and Michael, when HE'S the one who's bleeding, then I, and dictionary.com, would agree that YES, that was heroic of him.
I think first and foremost what Lost is trying to do is illustrate the human struggle. After all what makes a hero is someone who overcomes adversity to help others. Certainly neither Jack or Sawyer will be shiny all the time because they are human first & to be human is to be flawed.... I think Jack/Sawyer both share the reluctance to consider themselves in any heroic capacity, but it's just part of who they are no matter how much they resist. I don't see it as a competition of the hero/anti & that they will wind up opposite of what they are now per se, as I do that they are each are embarking on their own hero's journey, & have to overcome the self-doubt & demons which hinder their growth.
Very well said. I think as far as the characters go, it will be about their struggle - to deal with unresolved pre-crash issues and then new ones the island presents. The island, and all thats there is part of what they have to deal with and overcome. I don't think any of the crash survivors were part of a conspiracy to get them there - they may have had interactions pre-crash to tie them together - and somehow were destined to be on that flight and survive - but I really don't think anyone was part of it or had prior knowledge.
And I've said it before - once we see more episodes, a lot more will become clear and we'll have lots more to talk about and debate
Well, swimming out to save Johanna only to find Boone, and then go back out for her, well I thought that was pretty heroic. So I think he's qualify in that instance.
Okay, I forgot about this incident... probably distracted by wet/shirtless Boone
And since you've mentioned him... Boone.... hero? No hero?
(and no, I wasn't going to mention him from the start... *gg*)
9 July 2009 
So I think he's qualify in that instance.
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