Charlie's dream and the Beatles' butcher cover

[TabbyRasa]

In Charlie's first dream in S2/Fire + Water, the butcher block and the chopping of raw meat and a doll was probably a reference to the 1966 Beatles' album cover for "Yesterday and Today". It caused quite a controversy when it was released and there was a "coverup". For the conspiracy-minded, maybe that is relevant to LOST.

Spoiler:

If so, I wonder if the album title means anything about Time in the story.

I've heard that Charlie's and Liam's father was a butcher, and may have combined with Charlie's musical knowledge to spark that part of his dream, which I believe was a reference to the above album.

ETA track list...interesting!

Side one
1. Drive My Car
2. I'm Only Sleeping
3. Nowhere Man
4. Dr. Robert
5. Yesterday
6. Act Naturally


Side two
1. And Your Bird Can Sing
2. If I Needed Someone
3. We Can Work It Out
4. What Goes On
5. Day Tripper

ETA link has album cover and lots of info about this album

[weasel-king]

http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/finish2.jpg

Link to the album cover.

[BTD Greg]

Yeah, I noticed this too, and I definitely think it was an allusion to the infamous "butcher" cover to Y&T (which was never actually officially released, by the way). Another interesting tidbit: the photo for the butcher cover was actually titled, "A Somnambulant Adventure." Charlie engages in somnambulism (i.e., sleepwalking) in Fire + Water. Nice touch.

[AquarianStella]

Originally Posted by TabbyRasa

...the butcher block and the chopping of raw meat and a doll was probably a reference to the 1966 Beatles' album cover for "Yesterday and Today". ...Charlie's and Liam's father was a butcher...

Tabby: I'm glad to see that you've picked up on this dream sequence of Charlie's dad, the butcher, chopping raw meat (with a vengence!) - and chopping off a doll's head. This strikes me as being quite important to our storyline and I'm surprised at how little attention the scene has received on this forum.

Originally Posted by weasel-king

http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/finish2.jpg Link to the album cover.

Weasel-king: Thanks for the link to the album cover.

Originally Posted by BTD Greg

Another interesting tidbit: the photo for the butcher cover was actually titled, "A Somnambulant Adventure." Charlie engages in somnambulism (i.e., sleepwalking) in Fire + Water. Nice touch.

TPTB are really quite creative - among the very best, IMHO. The subtle reference to sleepwalking is a very nice touch.

I've posted elsewhere on this board about the book Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, and if you can stand one more reference from me about this book: Chapter 3 of this book is "Heads Will Roll" and is about beheading corpses as part of preparing them for cryonic suspension (freezing)...Sound like the album cover??.... Other topics in this chapter refer to nanotechnology, storing information in computers (memories?), and restoration of brain functioning after cryonic suspension. Do these sound like familiar subjects? I've ordered the book and it should arrive soon - I'll be back with more after I've read the book. (P.S. Let's don't tell my husband how much I've spent on books since this **** show began!!!)

[McGuane]

I thought of that banned album cover when I saw that flash in Charlie's dream. I'm, ahem, old enough to actually remember when that happened. I was a kid, mind you, but still old enough.

I couldn't remember exactly which album it was and went on several Beatles album cover sights and couldn't find it, I guess b/c it was never actually released. I was thinking it was around the time of Beatles 65 or Rubber Soul. Good find by whoever posted that link.

And great insert by the writers into Charlie the Beatles fan dream, and I wonder what this means for poor little Aaron! And we thought serial kidnappings before he was a month old was bad!

[TabbyRasa]

Originally Posted by weasel-king

http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/finish2.jpg

Link to the album cover.

Thanks, weasel-king...I was initially hesitant to post a link to the cover...skeered of the Mods saying it is too graphic.

Originally Posted by BTD Greg

Yeah, I noticed this too, and I definitely think it was an allusion to the infamous "butcher" cover to Y&T (which was never actually officially released, by the way). Another interesting tidbit: the photo for the butcher cover was actually titled, "A Somnambulant Adventure." Charlie engages in somnambulism (i.e., sleepwalking) in Fire + Water. Nice touch.

That is so interesting...I didn't know that! And yes, quite!

Originally Posted by AquarianStella

Tabby: I'm glad to see that you've picked up on this dream sequence of Charlie's dad, the butcher, chopping raw meat (with a vengence!) - and chopping off a doll's head. This strikes me as being quite important to our storyline and I'm surprised at how little attention the scene has received on this forum.

It got mentioned on a few other threads, but yeah, I am surprised too. It seems like such a blatant reference, it must be important.

TPTB are really quite creative - among the very best, IMHO. The subtle reference to sleepwalking is a very nice touch.

Oh, without doubt...they rock!!!

I've posted elsewhere on this board about the book Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, and if you can stand one more reference from me about this book: Chapter 3 of this book is "Heads Will Roll" and is about beheading corpses as part of preparing them for cryonic suspension (freezing)...Sound like the album cover??.... Other topics in this chapter refer to nanotechnology, storing information in computers (memories?), and restoration of brain functioning after cryonic suspension. Do these sound like familiar subjects?

Wow...pretty appropos, huh...

Originally Posted by McGuane

I thought of that banned album cover when I saw that flash in Charlie's dream. I'm, ahem, old enough to actually remember when that happened. I was a kid, mind you, but still old enough.

I couldn't remember exactly which album it was and went on several Beatles album cover sights and couldn't find it, I guess b/c it was never actually released. I was thinking it was around the time of Beatles 65 or Rubber Soul. Good find by whoever posted that link.

And great insert by the writers into Charlie the Beatles fan dream, and I wonder what this means for poor little Aaron! And we thought serial kidnappings before he was a month old was bad!

I added this link to my first post...has more info on the whole story. The album name is "Yesterday and Today".

A few of us have wondered what it means about Charlie's mom, since he and Liam both seemed to have such wistful reactions to the mention of her name...and combined with Charlie's dream about her expecting him to save them, and the butcher scene...what happened to Charlie's mom???

[AquarianStella]

Originally Posted by TabbyRasa

...what happened to Charlie's mom???

I don't think I want to ask!

[slickfifty]

Originally Posted by TabbyRasa

..what happened to Charlie's mom???

She was shot in a bank robbery of a safe deposit box while on walkabout in Australia, a trip she won for her sales job, two weeks all expense paid to Australia-she was in the bank to withdraw money to match the investment capital of her ruggedly cute southern lover.

[elfdream]

Stop that!

I found that whole butcher dad chops up the doll and mom is nowhere around quite frightening. I want to know but then..I don't want to know.

I was also a kid during the Beatles era and I knew nothing about any of this. Thanks for finding the connections.

[AnalogKid]

Wow that's some interesting stuff.

I think it's premature to assume that just because Charlie's dad was a butcher in the dream that he was a butcher in reality. I often have dreams about people I know and they are in roles that they do not occupy in real life.

On the other hand, it's not uncommon for them to be in the roles they are actually in. Just thought I'd throw that possibility out there!