I do not want to start a ship war, but Kate is confusing me this episode. She sleeps with Sawyer, cried and everything when he almost gets killed... but then forgets him as soon as Jack starts controlling everything. Jack told her that she could run, get away, and she only argued she wouldn't go without him (Jack). Now what ever happened to Sawyer? She just slept with him, and she's planning to just leave him??? She never even asked that Sawyer be included in this deal.
The only reason I can come up with is that she cannot hold onto a relationship. She keeps running from them. Everyone she ever loved, she ran away from. She loves Sawyer, slept with him, and now (to me, at least) it looks like she is just going to abandon him in the hands of the Others.
Now unless I missed something, does anyone else know why Kate just forgot Sawyer during that whole exchange with Jack?
I didn't get the impression that she forgot anything. She was actually looking at Sawyer when she was saying she wasn't going to leave without him (you). I think that scene was one of the many that could be misinterpreted though. Jack is telling her to run, "you have an hour headstart" Now Jack knows that they are together so you have to figure hes refering to both of them having an hour headstart. Shes yelling "I'm not leaving without you" talking to Jack but looking at Sawyer. My take on it was that she meant she wasn't leaving without THEM both. I could be wrong. However, I do agree that she seems like she may end up confused when they come back in February. She, I think, cares for both of them. I think Jack is the guy that she knows she SHOULD be with but Sawyer is the guy that she WANTS. Jacks a saver and a fixer and the guy you can always count on to fix your flat tire. Hes the kind of guy women marry. Sawyer is the guy that you know you shouldn't want but do anyway cause hes fun and sexy and just a little on the a**hole side! Anyway, I see why you saw it that way but I don't think thats what they had meant for us to get from that scene.
I do not want to start a ship war, but Kate is confusing me this episode. She sleeps with Sawyer, cried and everything when he almost gets killed... but then forgets him as soon as Jack starts controlling everything. Jack told her that she could run, get away, and she only argued she wouldn't go without him (Jack). Now what ever happened to Sawyer? She just slept with him, and she's planning to just leave him??? She never even asked that Sawyer be included in this deal.
The only reason I can come up with is that she cannot hold onto a relationship. She keeps running from them. Everyone she ever loved, she ran away from. She loves Sawyer, slept with him, and now (to me, at least) it looks like she is just going to abandon him in the hands of the Others.
Now unless I missed something, does anyone else know why Kate just forgot Sawyer during that whole exchange with Jack?
Umm...she wasn't planning to leave Sawyer. I don't know where that's coming from. Jack was giving them a way out...and she didn't just want to leave him behind. That makes perfect sense. She and Jack are very connected...and they're good friends. Even if she doesn't want to be romantically involved with him yet...that doesn't mean she's cool with letting him sacrifice himself for her.
If Kate runs...Sawyer's coming with her. There was no mention of leaving him behind. Jack was talking to Kate and not Sawyer because he wanted her to know that he was doing this for HER. But that didn't mean he would leave Sawyer to die. Jack isn't like that at all.
The point is that Jack is saying he'll let Ben die...unless Kate and Sawyer get away first and he makes sure they're safe. If that weren' the case...Pickett would have shot Sawyer anyway. Because it wasn't part of the deal.
She didn't forget about Sawyer she was staring right at him. She knows if she doesn't take Jack's opening and run away with Sawyer...they'll shoot him. But that doesn't mean that it's easy to let her friend sacrifice himself...possibly get hurt....to save her.
Spoiler:
Plus we see Sawyer and Kate running off together in the preview
Just because she doesn't want to leave the island without jack doesn't mean she loves him and not sawyer.
I didn't say she doesn't love Sawyer, she does. She just has a habit of running from the people she loves.
And I still don't see Jack including Sawyer in his plans. For some reason, I only saw him talking to Kate. For one, Jack really had no idea that Kate was with Sawyer at that time. He saw them together, yes, but then he went into surgery... the next morning. He had no idea if Kate was seperate from Sawyer then, or even if they were really going to kill Sawyer (which I highly doubt, they haven't even hurt a bunny...). So I still think that he was just trying to tell KATE, and only Kate, to go. And just because she was staring at Sawyer the entire time doesn't mean she didn't mean to leave him.
I didn't say she doesn't love Sawyer, she does. She just has a habit of running from the people she loves.
And I still don't see Jack including Sawyer in his plans. For some reason, I only saw him talking to Kate. For one, Jack really had no idea that Kate was with Sawyer at that time. He saw them together, yes, but then he went into surgery... the next morning. He had no idea if Kate was seperate from Sawyer then, or even if they were really going to kill Sawyer (which I highly doubt, they haven't even hurt a bunny...). So I still think that he was just trying to tell KATE, and only Kate, to go. And just because she was staring at Sawyer the entire time doesn't mean she didn't mean to leave him.
You're totally right, it doesn't mean she intended to leave with him. It also doesn't mean she intended to leave him behind though. I think without a direct response from one of the writers you'll never know for sure what it meant. However, I think the majority of people got the impression that she had no intentions of leaving either of them. And that Jack in no way meant for it to be just Kate that escaped. He knew they were together in the cage because he saw them. He knew they were both in cages and working together because Kate told him. However much animosity there may be between Jack and Sawyer he wouldn't, I don't think, knowingly and blatantly devise a plan where escape is possible and not include Sawyer. But ya know, different impressions.
As for the, not really going to kill Sawyer....did you see the episode where Pickett beat him bloody for something Sawyer didn't even do?!
Ben didn't hurt the bunny...Pickett on the other hand probably has a really soft lucky rabbits foot right about now!
I think she loves both of them. (who wouldn't ?) Right now she's bonding more with Sawyer because they're suffering their hardship/captivity together. That doesn't mean her feelings for Jack just go away. She still cares for him and doesn't want to leave him behind. She's planning on taking Sawyer with her, she's just not verbalizing it at the moment.
kate has feelings for both men, romantic and friendship and she is confused
they told kate they were going to kill sawyer, so she gave into her feelings for him because she wanted to give him back something and she wanted to say goodbye and she wanted to have that experience and she probably thought since he was dying, she wouldn't really have to face anything beyond that - but it doesn't point to her leaving him behind
Spoiler:
In an interview it was stated that the "choice'" kate makes is temporary
they went to great lengths to show us the romance and connection between jack and kate right before the sawyer and kate love scene - that felt very purposeful
they left whether she would bring sawyer along ambiguous on purpose,
Spoiler:
but then showed in the preview that she did
, I think we were just meant to infer that Kate wasn't going to leave jack behind - allow him to sacrifice himself for her, remember that she didn't want sawyer to sacrifice himself for her either, only moments before - she doesn't want to hurt anyone else, let anyone else she cares for get hurt because of her and she doesn't want to lose anyone else she cares for (and they showed us why in her flashback)
there was definitely some kind of code speak going on between jack and kate both in the aquarium and on the walkies - there is a lot they are not showing us that when they do, will help make sense of all of this (i hope) I think it harkens back to what they didn't show us between revealing they knew Michael had betrayed them and getting caught and that odd little nod between jack and kate befoe they got the bags over the head end of last season - but also what they haven't shown us the others have been doing to kate off camera
jack doesn't know that they may not be able to get off the island they are on, but if she is able to tell him and he is quick on his feet, he will get the others to tell him where an escape vehicle is (sub or boat, or tunnel) for she and sawyer but that immediately makes me more afraid for jack for some reason
all the way around, I think we cannot come to legitimate conclusions without more information - though speculation is very fun!!
picture me banging a big ol' drum yelling, more than meets the eye!!!!!
Last edited by lostcompletely; 11-09-2006 at 06:51 PM.
Reason: poor typing and spoiler font issues ;)
I do not want to start a ship war, but Kate is confusing me this episode. She sleeps with Sawyer, cried and everything when he almost gets killed... but then forgets him as soon as Jack starts controlling everything. Jack told her that she could run, get away, and she only argued she wouldn't go without him (Jack). Now what ever happened to Sawyer? She just slept with him, and she's planning to just leave him??? She never even asked that Sawyer be included in this deal.
The only reason I can come up with is that she cannot hold onto a relationship. She keeps running from them. Everyone she ever loved, she ran away from. She loves Sawyer, slept with him, and now (to me, at least) it looks like she is just going to abandon him in the hands of the Others.
Now unless I missed something, does anyone else know why Kate just forgot Sawyer during that whole exchange with Jack?
i simply think kate is in love with jack and she slept with sawyer cause the others threatened her (we didnt see what happened between the beach lunch and the cage).
as you say, she run from any relationship, but in the pilot, where she is sewing jack, she said: "if i had been you, i would have run"
and jack answered: "now, you're not running".
kate always runs, except when she is with jack... no?
I'm still thinking Kate's erratic behavior stems back to breakfast on the beach with Ben. He told her it was going to a be difficult two weeks I 'm still getting the feeling that Kate has been doing what she was told to do by Ben and not always what her choice woud be. I have to wonder why the concverstion with Ben which had to be much more detailed than we saw is never mentioned to Sawyer unless like him she's toldd not to tell.
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