LOST Rewind: All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues

[Captain_Falafel]

Originally Posted by Sam G

But Charlie wasn't destined to die then. What a pathetic death that would have been for Charlie.

If you know you are going to die and you are able to chose your moment, let it be heroic.

In Daddy Issues, Charlie died because he was (heroically?) trying to protect Claire. In Looking Glass Charlie also died in the act of trying to save Claire. Both times he was murdered by the Others. Apart from Charlie having fore-warning and getting to prepare himself the second time are the deaths really so different?

[Sam G]

In ATBCHDI, I don't think Charlie had any idea he might die, in TTLG Charlie made a choice, hoped that Desmond was telling the truth about Claire and Aaron getting in a helicopter. Unfortunately, Desmond only sees flashes and this may not be what he thought it was.

[Captain_Falafel]

Originally Posted by Sam G

In ATBCHDI, I don't think Charlie had any idea he might die, in TTLG Charlie made a choice, hoped that Desmond was telling the truth about Claire and Aaron getting in a helicopter. Unfortunately, Desmond only sees flashes and this may not be what he thought it was.

Charlie didn't choose for Mikhail to bomb the Looking Glass station. Saying Charlie died of his own free choice is letting Mikhail (and Ben who ordered Charlies death) get away with intentional murder.

The point I'm trying to make is that Charlie's hanging shares qualities with several of his subsequent deaths. He was hung for trying to protect Claire from Ethan, he drowned trying to rescue Claire in the ocean, he died trying get a bird for Claire, he went to the LG to bring the helicopter for Claire. Charlie dying for Claire has been a theme since S1.

[Liplocked]

Starting to look to me like the concensus that Charlie would make a suitable surrogate dad for baby Aaron, wasn't universal.

[Bicklefitch]

A few notes from my re-watch...

Jack's fervor in going after Charlie and Claire after they were abducted by Ethan was clearly fueled by his memory of Christian's "accident" in the O.R., which had taken the life of another pregnant woman. Immediately after the Jackback of Christian trying to placate the dead woman's husband, Jack rushed up the hill after Ethan, telling Kate "I'm not letting him do this, not again". But...was this phrase just a Freudian slip on Jack's part, or might there also be loops in play?

The backgammon scene between Walt and Hurley included this exchange...

HURLEY: Crap.

WALT: Your blacks can't get in.

HURLEY: Yeah, I know, my blacks can't get in.

I've felt for some time that Hurley has been caught in a tug-of-war between two forces on the island. With the introduction of Jacob and his nemesis, I think this has become even more likely. Given Walt's connection to the island, maybe 'the island', or Jacob (as the island's advocate) has been somehow denying the Man in Black full access to Hurley.

Charlie's first words after being rescued by Jack ("I didn't see anything, hear anything. I don't remember anything.") sounded eerily similar to Richard's warning to Kate before he took young Ben to the temple ("What I mean is that, he'll forget this ever happened"). And his next words ("Claire...that's all they wanted. All they wanted was Claire.") suggest a 'loss of innocence' to me. Did the island change Charlie in the same way it changed young Ben?

[xcopmom]

Originally Posted by Bicklefitch

A few notes from my re-watch...

Jack's fervor in going after Charlie and Claire after they were abducted by Ethan was clearly fueled by his memory of Christian's "accident" in the O.R., which had taken the life of another pregnant woman. Immediately after the Jackback of Christian trying to placate the dead woman's husband, Jack rushed up the hill after Ethan, telling Kate "I'm not letting him do this, not again". But...was this phrase just a Freudian slip on Jack's part, or might there also be loops in play?

I always thought that line pointed to a loop, because of the 'not again' part. But another thing that intrigued me about this episode was how much the dead pregnant patient looks like Ilana.

[CharliesHeroin]

I think that if we look hard enough, we'll always be able to find 'clues' that hint at a reset, but I don't think that's what's going to happen. If I'm wrong then everyone has permission to say 'Nah nah nah nah nah we told you so.'

And I just have to add, Charlies hanging scene is just one of the most emotive scenes of Lost. The acting is amazing - Jack and Kate just draw you in and make you feel their desperation and despair. Even now I can't make it through this scene without crying, no matter how many times I watch it and even though I know that Charlie survives. (Although, I am known to cry at Lost anyway - I cried last night when I was watching Walkabout, seeing Locke stand up and feel his legs for the first time in four years, the wonder in his face, the miracle - it's such amazing acting without even saying a word. But now I'm off topic.)

I've always wondered who Charlie meant when he said 'all they wanted was Claire'. Who was helping Ethan? But since now Ethan and Charlie are both dead, and even if Charlie wasn't, he was too traumatized to remember, I don't think we'll ever find out. I suppose it makes sense that we wont find out, seeing as Lost is always told from the point of view of the characters, and, as none of the characters know exactly what happened, neither will we.

[Sam G]

Originally Posted by CharliesHeroin

I've always wondered who Charlie meant when he said 'all they wanted was Claire'. Who was helping Ethan? But since now Ethan and Charlie are both dead, and even if Charlie wasn't, he was too traumatized to remember, I don't think we'll ever find out. I suppose it makes sense that we wont find out, seeing as Lost is always told from the point of view of the characters, and, as none of the characters know exactly what happened, neither will we.

I've always wondered that too.

But later on when Juliet said:

S3E16 Juliet: Look, I know how this sounds, but without those injections, Claire would have died. Without the serum she's going into a form of withdrawal and if I don't treat her quickly, her immune system could shut down entirely. Jack, I can fix this. I just need the serum. Ethan kept a stash of the medical supplies near the caves where you used to live. If I go right now, I can be back before it's to late.

I had a feeling Juliet might have been Ethan's accomplice, although we never saw Juliet and back then the character of Juliet may not have been thought of, let alone cast.

[CharliesHeroin]

Originally Posted by Sam G

I've always wondered that too.

But later on when Juliet said:

S3E16 Juliet: Look, I know how this sounds, but without those injections, Claire would have died. Without the serum she's going into a form of withdrawal and if I don't treat her quickly, her immune system could shut down entirely. Jack, I can fix this. I just need the serum. Ethan kept a stash of the medical supplies near the caves where you used to live. If I go right now, I can be back before it's to late.

I had a feeling Juliet might have been Ethan's accomplice, although we never saw Juliet and back then the character of Juliet may not have been thought of, let alone cast.

I think it would be awesome to see Charlie and Claire's kidnapping scene from Juliets point of view, if she did actually help with it. She was obviously involved with what was going on with Claire - that was her job, after all. I think this could be done brilliantly - imagine Juliets reaction to the kidnapping of a pregnant girl and the hanging of Charlie. Juliet has always had morals, more so than a lot of the other Others.

[kitdavis]

Originally Posted by Sam G

I've always wondered that too.

But later on when Juliet said:

S3E16 Juliet: Look, I know how this sounds, but without those injections, Claire would have died. Without the serum she's going into a form of withdrawal and if I don't treat her quickly, her immune system could shut down entirely. Jack, I can fix this. I just need the serum. Ethan kept a stash of the medical supplies near the caves where you used to live. If I go right now, I can be back before it's to late.

I had a feeling Juliet might have been Ethan's accomplice, although we never saw Juliet and back then the character of Juliet may not have been thought of, let alone cast.

Was that when Ben "activated the implant" though? I thought she was lying to Jack and the whole thing was a ploy to get the Losties to trust her.

Not that that doesn't mean she was implicated in Claire's abduction, of course - after all, as the fertility doctor, you'd think she'd be there.