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Eggtown Air Date: 2/21/2008 60 minutes EP: 404
Written by Elizabeth Sarnoff & Greggory Nations
Directed by Stephen Williams


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Old 02-22-2008, 01:37 PM   #1
Saukkomies
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Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

Just for kicks I decided to look at the three cards that Charlotte turned over for Daniel as if it was a Three-Card Reading from a Tarot deck. This is not completely bogus, as playing cards are actually used in lieu of traditional Tarot cards sometimes to do fortune telling. The four suits of the Tarot deck's Minor Arcana are represented by the four playing card suits.

There are several differences between the playing card deck and the Tarot cards. The first difference is that the playing cards only have three "face cards" (King, Queen, Jack), while the Tarot deck has four face cards (King, Queen, Knight, Page), so instead of each suit containing 14 cards, as in the Tarot, the playing card deck has only 13 cards per suit. Another major difference is that there is no Major Arcana represented in the playing card deck. And finally, the last difference is that the playing cards have no "reversed" meaning, which the Tarot cards do - in other words, in most Tarot decks the cards may be either right-side up or upside down when layed on the table, and this difference often changes the meaning associated with the card. Other than that, one may use playing cards in a pinch if someone is just really Jonesin' for a Tarot reading and no Tarot deck is at hand.

The Three-Card Reading is a fairly common method. It's very simple: the first card represents the Past, the second card the Present, and the third card the Future. So, to do the reading, you look at the meaning of each card, and then place that meaning into the appropriate slot - so that the card that is in the "Past" position would indicate what the subject's past influences had been.

Okay, so here is the layout of Daniel's hand (I'm giving the name of the playing card, followed by the corresponding Tarot card name, and the links for each Tarot card are to an online site that provides illustrations from the commonly-used Rider-Waite Deck):

Past: Queen of Diamonds, or Queen of Pentacles
Present: Six of Clubs, or Six of Wands
Future: Three of Spades, or Three of Swords

Here are the definitions of these three cards given as if they were Tarot cards (taken from the online Tarotpedia site's definitions):

Queen of Pentacles: This card has two possible interpretations. Any time a face card shows up in a Tarot reading, it may indicate that it could either be an actual real live person who is close to the subject of the reading, or it could also represent some ideas or influences at play. Or it could be a combination of both. In this case, the Queen of Pentacles would represent a mature woman who is very "earthy", and who probably has a dark complexion or dark hair. If this card represented some influences, they would be:

* Nurturing, generous, resourcefulness
* Devotion to family and community
* Fertility, abundance and prosperity
* Sensuality

Six of Wands: This card represents the following influences:

* Victory, triumph through hard won battles, over stiff competition.
* Receiving praise, acclaim, and laurels for your victory.
* A warning in this card is that with such acclaim can easily come pride. Beware of that becoming prideful.
* Charisma

Three of Swords: This card represents the following influences:

* Cutting to the heart of a matter
* Betrayal in a relationship
* Heartbreak or sorrow. Also, the need to understand your sorrow.
* Severing emotional ties -- hence, a separation or divorce
* Loneliness
* An avoidance or deadening of our emotions or feelings. For example, being a workaholic or tending to over-intellectualize our experiences are a couple of ways to avoid feeling or experiencing our emotions. Thus, beware allowing our intellect to kill our emotions.

So, to do the reading, this would indicate that in Daniel's past there were influences at play that involved either a very earth mother type person, or that he was surrounded by a very warm, nurturing, supportive environment.

In Daniel's present he is undergoing a very difficult test, but he is doing okay at the present. There seems to be some warning, though, of being overly confident from success so far...

Daniel's future does not look too happy. The Three of Swords is a pretty complicated card, having several main influences, including over-intellectualising, distancing oneself from one's emotional or love life through overwork or running away. It also represents loneliness, heartbreak, emotional loss, lack of nurture. In other words, the Future for Daniel represents the complete 180 degree opposite of his Past!

Now, what was interesting to me in that scene was that Daniel got the third (Future) card wrong. Instead of him remembering it to be the Three of Spades, he thought it was the Ten of Cups. So, let's look at the Ten of Cups:

Ten of Hearts, or Ten of Cups

Influences:

* Abundant blessings and emotional well-being or fulfillment
* Joy and serenity of being at one with the people in your life
* A happy, stable relationship or home life
* The attainment of purity and happiness through the integration of your emotional experiences
* The Ten of Cups may signify a happy family.
* The Ten of Cups is a "Stage Card" which may imply an illusion of happiness in a relationship or it may indicate the ideal of a happy marriage or family. It also can say that joy comes from how we view our life, not from what happens to us.

So what this would mean (from my interpretation of it) is that Daniel WANTS his future to be a culmination of happiness, a successful marriage, a nurturing family life, etc. He wants the same thing that he has had in his Past.

BUT...

Instead, what it looks like he's going to be getting is heartache, betrayal, loneliness and sorrow.

So, thoughts, suggestions, comments?

Last edited by Saukkomies; 02-22-2008 at 01:43 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:40 PM   #2
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

That is very interesting. Nice research! I never would have thought of that.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:57 PM   #3
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

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Originally Posted by BuffyMars View Post
That is very interesting. Nice research! I never would have thought of that.
Hey, thanks. I actually think that TPTB chose those specific cards on purpose.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #4
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

I'd been waiting for someone to start a thread on this.
Even more intriguing, imo, is that the 3 Spades and 6 Clubs are 2 of the 4 infamous Apocalypse Now cards that Duvall's character tossed onto dead VC to spook the enemy.
This was an allusion to soldier's belief, as described in Wikipedia

Quote:
US troops erroneously believed that Vietnamese ancient traditions held the symbolism of the spade to mean death and ill-fortune and in a bid to scare away NLF soldiers without firefight, it was common practice to leave an Ace of Spades on the bodies of killed Vietnamese and even to litter the forested grounds and fields with the card. This custom was erroneously believed to be so effective, that the Bicycle Playing Cards company was asked to supply crates of that single card in bulk. The crates were often marked with "Bicycle Secret Weapon".
Worth pondering because of the bicycle and spade card picture in Aaron's room..

The 10 Diamonds was of course made famous in the Manchurian Candidate.

Not sure if it all means something or if the writers just had a lot of fun picking cards with conspiratorial links..
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:45 PM   #5
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

It could explain why in Daniels FF he was crying at the news ? ! Because what he thought would be some sort of discovery and glory moment for him turned out to be a nightmare ?
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:49 PM   #6
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

REALLY excellent post. Easily one of the creative posts that I have seen on the Eggtown thread.

Great catch!





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Old 02-22-2008, 02:51 PM   #7
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

What is the Tarot meaning of the 7 of spades (easter egg in Aaron's room)?
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:17 PM   #8
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

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Originally Posted by Saukkomies View Post
So what this would mean (from my interpretation of it) is that Daniel WANTS his future to be a culmination of happiness, a successful marriage, a nurturing family life, etc. He wants the same thing that he has had in his Past. BUT...
Instead, what it looks like he's going to be getting is heartache, betrayal, loneliness and sorrow.
How about this take on the "two" future cards...

If he stays on the island...conclusion 1...happy future
If he leaves the island...conclusion 2... unhappy future?

This would mean that the "island" is trying to influence his thinking and giving him problems remembering what the card should be.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:25 PM   #9
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

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Originally Posted by mrain01 View Post
What is the Tarot meaning of the 7 of spades (easter egg in Aaron's room)?
Oh BOY! I think you really hit on something there, mrain!!

So, as a refresher, here's the screencap showing the Seven of Spades pasted to the painting of the bicycle riding boy.

Here's the image of the Rider-Waite Seven of Swords (which would be the Tarot equivalent to the Seven of Spades).

And here's the meaning:

Taking risks (rationally or irrationally)
Partial success; Partial failure
Dishonesty; Deceit; Betrayal; Deception; Underhanded tricks; Mischief; Treachery; Sabotage; Theft
Taking the easy way out ... Acting shamefully or without honor
Running away from, or turning your back on, your responsibilities. (For example, a “deadbeat dad”)
Getting away with something wrong or unethical
Leveling the playing field
Thinking outside of the box
Guard your belongings and take precautions--something may come up missing.

So - What my usual reaction to seeing the Seven of Swords is: THEFT. It can also mean Kidnapping. And of course, as said above: taking the easy way out, and acting shamefully and without honor.

WOHO! Is this a clue or what?!?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Ed View Post
How about this take on the "two" future cards...

If he stays on the island...conclusion 1...happy future
If he leaves the island...conclusion 2... unhappy future?

This would mean that the "island" is trying to influence his thinking and giving him problems remembering what the card should be.
Hey, sure! Although I love studying the Tarot, and have done since I was in my teens way back in the 1970s (I'm a proud member of the Fuselage's Elders' Council, by the way), I am completely honest with myself in saying that I do not know everything there is to know about the Tarot or how to interpret it. I think it's a pretty subjective thing.

Of course, in this case it is TPTB who have put those cards in the scene, probably knowing full well what they were doing, is my guess. So this is a way to perhaps get a glimpse into the minds of the people who are planning future episodes for the series: it's literally a divination into the future of Lost! Heh!

Of course, the interpretation of the cards, that's the tricky part...

Last edited by Saukkomies; 02-22-2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:40 PM   #10
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Re: Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards

Excellent! I noticed the card in the painting too. i thought it was a 6 of spades, but with a 7 on it. i checked and 6's and 7's are nearly the same. the hand holding the card covers the 7th spade...so good catch here.

Anyone notice that the houses in the same painting look like the ones in the hatch mural?
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